* Rankings reflect many factors and are not just subject to league or tournament play in determining position. Strength of opponent is also a factor.
Top 10 Team Rankings for January 21, 2013
1. North Shore Winter Club (19-2-2 137-26)
2. SSAC Southgate Lions (24-0-2 194-54)
3. Burnaby Winter Club (20-1-2 122-13)
4. Lloydminster Heat (19-2-5 153-69)
5. Calgary Bisons (22-2-2 159-64)
6. Notre Dame Hounds (13-2-6 92-50) Midget AA
7. POE (11-1-0 85-20)
8. Winnipeg Hawks (18-3-1 130-39)
9. Calgary Northstar Sabres (20-5-1 137-61)
10. MLAC Scott Pump (16-6-4 133-83)
Honorable Mention
Sherwood Park Flyers (13-7-6 136-90), Winnipeg Sharks (16-6-0 97-58), Winnipeg Monarchs (20-2-1 118-45), OHA (35-7-3 176-87) -Tournament Play/Not part of league
Top 5 Saskatchewan AA Bantam
1. North East Wolfpack (16-3-2 102-43)
2. Regina Pat Blues (16-3-1 110-49)
3. West Central Wheat Kings (18-3-2 115-54)
4. Swift Current Kabos Raiders (10-6-4 91-74)
5. Balgonie Prairie Storm (10-9-0 90-63)
61 comments:
So POE defeats ND straight up but still gets ranked lower. How does that make sense?
Nice to see OHA finally out of the top ten. They only get a honmen because they were at the tournament. Still other teams better.
No Malenstyn or White in the top scorers list no surprises there. Great coverage WEHP for the fans that couldn't be there no matter what anyone says.
winnipeg sharks in the honarable mention? wow, heard their goalie link is really good
OHA has played POE three times this year and has beaten them soundly EVERY time. I guess these are snapshots in time and appreciate its not an exact science but can't say it makes sense to me either if your considering the whole body of work and not just one tournament; albeit a very important tournament.
Hey POE parent - one game does not as season make.
POE also beat Loyd and lost to SSAC by 1 goal, thanks to a horrible call. Don't see the logic at all.
you can't rank a team lower just because of one games
@ 7:28
They also lost to the Bisons. Should the Bisons be higher than them? Should Lloydminister be higher than BWC and NSWC? While I'd probably have gone something like:
SSAC
NSWC
BWC
POE
Lloyd
Notre Dame
Bisons
There are a lot of combinations you can make with the top seven that I think are justifiable. Consider that SSAC outshot BWC and NSWC, that NSWC got blanked by Lloyd, but also outshot Lloyd, etc. There are a lot more factors to consider than just the latest head to head match up. I 100% agree with the 8-10 rankings.
And as we all know, these rankings will change again before the end of the season.
Cheers.
This ranking list is very accurate for the JRMT but not when it comes to season play. No one can predict how a group of 14 year kids are going to feel or perform on any given day. Nor does anyone know what is done in these dressing rooms by the coaches to boost these 14 year olds or to deflate them. Emotions run high after tight games and so do mouths. This blog is proof of that. The 16 teams that participated in this tournament have a lot to be proud of. Many other teams would love to have been there.
January 21, 2013 at 8:49 AM
OHA's "body of work" is AA tournaments. Get real.
The debate rages on and to the surprise of no one disagreement reigns supreme.
While it'as true that one game head to head doesn't mean much, the body of work over a 6 game series such as we have just seen, does say a lot.
That said, I can see POE and ND ranked very close to each other after all, they did play for the bronze and which one should be higher, well, take your pick.
One of the measures of a good team though is how it performs when on the big stage, where the games are intense, the competition extremely tough and the pressure both physically and mentally is elevated... this is the true test.
So while it's true OHA has beaten POE 3 times, when it came time to step up and show what you have when the pressure is on, OHA couldn't get the job done.
Bottom line the tournament results tell the story and with a record of 0-4-1 and only scoring 11 goals in 5 games OHA finished where they belong and should drop out of the top 10...enough said!
If they hope to seriously challenge at Westerns this year, BWC has to find a way to create scoring. I guess that's something we all know.
They managed just 15 goals in 5 games in St Albert, with 7 of those coming in the opening game. Fully 11 teams were more productive offensively!
Their top four D are excellent, no question. But White is a shadow of his you-tube self and Kryski's stick-handling doesn't count on the scoreboard. No wonder they went so hard after McCarnan and others to bolster the Forward group.
NSWC seems to be demonstrating that a team can learn to play solid Defence. Unfortunately for BWC, it's almost impossible to teach goal-scoring.
I thought Lloyd should have been a bit higher ranked ... in top three (I am not with Lloyd). They beat NSWC 4-0 and BWC 6-3 and only lost the one game to POE by one goal
(in the whole tourny)-- as well they made it to semis... not sure how Burnaby could be ahead
OHA shut down your pr / spin machine ... The Reid tourny was the best grouping of top teams played over 4 days that there will be this year .. do not try to marginalize the results of the tourny just because your team was winless in 5 games....
Congrats to NSWC for winning the John Reid. NSWC is a very very good team, but lets not forget that had MLAC beat Lloyd in the pool round game NSWC would not even have been in the medal round. My intent is not to bring down NSWC but to remind all that whether they go on to the medal round was not in their control by going 1-1-1. Western Canada has lots of good teams, rankings are not so clear cut.
does anyone know what the penalty minutes per team (approx) were in the SSAC vs POE game .... I watched the game and it looked like SSAC was rescued by the refs?
i read all the OHA bashing and i'm not an OHA parent (a friend of an OHA parent) but i watched their games and their best player was suspended for two games. What would have happened if Fabbro or Hanoun or better yet Benson was suspended for two games for their respective teams. If someone thinks they get through i have a tough time with that. OHA lost one game in a shoot out, one game they tied but had to pull their goalie at 3-3 to get a win. if you want honest criticism they played poorly against Notre Dame and coudldnt wait to get out of town against St. Albert! OHA is good team and the more you rail against them the more you vindicate this statement. Ask POE how good they are! Or for that matter BWC, Langley, NSWC (lost by one goal). why so passionate about OHA anyway? do you want to be there but can't afford it??
1:12 pm
POE 25 min + 10 min of Jost game misconduct to SSAC 8 min plus 2 min with 0:09 secs left in game. So essentially 25 min to 8 min. Never the less. Im assuming POE couldn't keep up and had to take penalties. Thats all part of the game. Just because they had more penatlies doesn't mean they were favored. If they didn't take a penalty then maybe SSAC would of scored on original play. I wasn't there but haven't heard SSAC was really favored by the refs.
1:12 PM
According to the JRMT website where you can see the game sheet, the penalty minutes were POE 25 plus the game to Jost which occurred in the 1st period and 8 minutes for SSAC.
The killer of course was the 5:26 mark of the 1st period when Jost was ejected. At the same time McDonald was assessed a 2 min minor and POE was also hit with a 2min bench.
This gave SSAC a 5 on 3 and they took full advantage which good teams do.
Kudos to POE who did fight their way back to tie the game, but Benson did what he is known to do and iced the game with a few minutes left.
"No wonder they went so hard after McCarnan."
Give us a break. No one really believes this. He grew early, is about 5'6" and done growing. Good player but really lets keep this real.
2:59
I must disagree with your assumption that POE couldn't keep up and had to take penalties.
POE was leading 2-0 when Jost was ejected and 3 penalties (1 a 5 minute)were called against them at the 5.26 mark leading to the 5 on 3for SSAC. On the ensuing PP SSAC scored 3 goals to take the lead.
you also stated that if POE didn't take a penalty then maybe SSAC would have scored on the original play.
I would suggest that it's doubtful because SSAC scored 5 of their 6 goals on the PP, meanwhile at even strength were outscored by POE 4 to 1 and that is without POE's best player.
Benson was involved in 4 of the 6 goals SSAC scored.
Suppose he was taken out of the game with 2 periods remaining, do you think the result would have been the same?
I guess when you dig deeper, there's always more than meet the eye.
As said in an earlier post - Wehp did a good job this weekend, hopefully nobody will bash 14 year old kids with there comments, if you watched a lot of games and look at the score sheets, these teams are realy close, the hockey talent in western Canada is very deep and is world class
All right agree with you, but to say Oha couldn't get wait to get out of town against St.Albert seems a little harsh.
Tourny stats - Poe 3 St. Albert 2 Winnepeg monarchs 4 St.Albert 6
Calgary bisons 5 St.Albert 4
Mlac 4 St.Albert 3
Oha 3 St.Albert 5
I guess the other teams they played were
Just being nice to the hosts.
January 21, 2013 at 4:39 PM
Anonymous said...
"No wonder they went so hard after McCarnan."
Give us a break. No one really believes this. He grew early, is about 5'6" and done growing. Good player but really lets keep this real.
-----------------------
What does that mean? Are you doubting they tried to recruit Nathan?
Also, I have him as 5' 8" and WEHP says he's 5' 9". But even if he is 5' 6", so what?
I think the point was that BWC is offensively-challenged and that's why they tried to draw in McCarnan, Regush and others. That's no surprise, is it?
It all seems perfectly real to me.
Curious if anyone heard anything about the GSHL / SBAAHL situation. Apparently Saskatoon was voting last night to decide whether they would be entering the league.
there is some good news for those players who could not attend.... the level of play was the highest (just ask OHA and Winnipeg Monarchs) and very few top players (talking top `10 to top 30) played as advertised at the heightened level.. Part of this is because there has been a lot of over hyping and scouts buying in, but also some players just do not have the extra gear or drive in them to play at this level ... this means at some point there are voids to be filled and other players will rise...
Both McCarnan and Regush would have definitely bolstered their forwards. Both would be in their top 6.
As far as team rankings go, I don't think there's much to choose between any of the top 7 on WEHP's list. On any given day any of those teams could beat the others.
What a shame about the major penalty call on Jost against SSAC. If you were there to see the play, could you post your comment? Something like that has to be an obvious call to be warranted. Was it?
This site makes me laugh with all the talk of BC,You could put something down like SSAC played Lloyd in probally the Best Bantam AAA game in 10 years and you'll get comments from folks in BC saying POE beat BWC or that a 3rd line player on a lower ranked team is getting over looked by the scouts! How about this BC---- Comment on your leauge and leave Alberta and Sask alone... Plus i'm from BC and you are making us all look stupid, Thanks
was told saskatoon rejected joining the sbaahl
I saw the Jost hit and it was just a hard clean hit from the side. As the SSAC player got hit the gate came open. he then het the stantion beside the penalty box which resulted in him being hurt. never want to see anyone get hurt but the hit was clean. Officials then had a conference and the the result was Jost's ejection. officiating was great all weekend, but they blew that call and it had a big effect on the outcome! POE beat SSAC in Med Hat and was taking it to them at that point in the game as well.
It was a bizare game to watch ... and would make a great hockey "case study" for hockey Canada on refing .. Up until the fatal 5:26 moment of the first, POE totaly dominated and was winning 2-0. Another point not mentioned also was that POE clawed their way back to tie it up , both without Jost, and while the ref continued to dish out seemingly as many penaties to POE as he could for the duration of the game.... as stated you have to dig deeper on this one.
Alberta has alot of depth in the 98 age group. Its too bad we have to play weak teams for the most part. But it does make Med Hat and St Albert that much more special.
Alberta has 6 or 7 teams that are amazing to watch. BC has 3. (sorry OHA)Winnipeg has maybe 2. I do not know enough about the Sask league to make a fair statement. Lloyd Heat are fun to watch. The plaoffs are going to be a blast in Alberta.
McCarnan is not dominating in flight 3 in PCAHA, what makes you think he can do it in flight 1? He used to be a big bull, but guess what the D in flight 1 can handle a player of Nathans ability
lts be serious for a minute, BWC would not have taken either of those players and if they would have it may have added a different dimension to BWC's 3rd line.
its easy to say they were being recruited now.....
its against PCAHA guidelines to recruit, so don't be foolish and shoot yourself in the foot now
just for that, you may not have your son playing second or third line behind White this spring!
grow up moms, you were on the board for Van Minor Hockey, you know the rules so think and play it smart!
stop promoting , it aint worth it
St Albert was a great tournament.
Great teams, good refs, weather was not to bad. Hotels were great. Stats were as good as any. not perfect , but they never are.
Even MVP's -They got it right.
Thank you to all who helped put this on.
and Thank you to all you gave updates. I was not like this 5 years ago I can tell you that.
Every team played well no fights with players or parents. ( or even Coaches)
About a year ago, WEHP broke down the rankings by provinces. It was a good indication about where the teams were in regards to their own territories. It would be interesting to see WEHP do this agian.
POE lost to SSAC. You don't have to dig deeper. It is what it is. SSAC scored more goals and thats it. Recruiting players across western Canada does not guarantee that your team is better. Some kids choose to live at home or their parents can't afford expensive private hockey schools. They play in their communities and I personally find it refreshing when a club team defeats one of these overpriced prep schools. I loved the comments and excuses regarding the refereeing...LOL. If POE had won there would be nothing said. Teach humility. When you win don't be to loud and when you lose don't try to minimize the accomplishment of your apposition with excuses. Shake their hands and say great game. Thats it!! POE is a good team but they should be. Just imagine if LLoyd, SSAC, Bisons, NStars...made one team. Huh...
But even if he is 5' 6", so what?
January 21, 2013 at 10:36 PM
There is a big difference in potential between 5'6" and finished growing and 5'6" and just starting to grow. The latter could end up 6' who knows. Fully developed is fully developed. Some kids peak at Atom, Peewee, Bantam or Midget. Only time will tell.
January 22, 2013 at 11:05 AM
Anonymous said...
"McCarnan is not dominating in flight 3 in PCAHA, what makes you think he can do it in flight 1?"
- Nobody said he would dominate in Flight 1. Only said he would improve BWC’s offensive production. Got it?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
January 22, 2013 at 12:00 PM
Anonymous said...
"just for that, you may not have your son playing second or third line behind White this spring!"
- Sounds like a threat. So that's how things are run over there?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
January 22, 2013 at 4:55 PM
Anonymous said...
"There is a big difference in potential between 5'6" and finished growing and 5'6" and just starting to grow. The latter could end up 6' who knows. Fully developed is fully developed. Some kids peak at Atom, Peewee, Bantam or Midget. Only time will tell."
- You're missing the point under discussion, which is whether or not McCarnan would help address BWC's goal-scoring problems. Personally, I think he would easily be a Top 6 Forward for them. In fact, he'd be a great addition to Kryski/White on the top line.
Saskatoon zones rejected the proposal that was given to them, they will join with 4 teams, when they hash out the tier 2 configuration.
January 22, 2013 at 11:05 AM
Anonymous said...
"McCarnan is not dominating in flight 3 in PCAHA, what makes you think he can do it in flight 1?"
- Nobody said he would dominate in Flight 1. Only said he would improve BWC’s offensive production. Got it?
if McCarnan came to BWC it would provide more short handed ice for their PK line, and Uy is far better so no replacement was every considered.
he is a average player as someone mentioned ealier that grew quickly, but has faded off the discussion topics of a possible top 5th-6th round WHL pick.
all the best and don't loose sleep over it, life goes on and don't put un needed stress on him, "stress stunts the growth"
if I could pass on a little life lesson to you
"ask or make a stupid comment, expect the wrath of the crowds around"
QUOTING..." Anonymous said...
Saskatoon zones rejected the proposal that was given to them, they will join with 4 teams, when they hash out the tier 2 configuration.
January 23, 2013 at 6:38 AM"
So they WILL drop to four teams at the highest level and join the SBAAHL?
Just wondering if there is now a spot ones on your spring team?
There is a big difference in potential between 5'6" and finished growing and 5'6" and just starting to grow. The latter could end up 6' who knows. Fully developed is fully developed. Some kids peak at Atom, Peewee, Bantam or Midget. Only time will tell.
January 22, 2013 at 4:55 PM
This is so true. Some of the kids looking strong and dominating now at 5'10" are fully mature. They will have to deal with the reality that others will develop later and challenge and often bypass them. This is often hard for them to handle. The kid who is doing well and only just starting to develop that has to struggle through this uneven growth period often comes out the other side stronger for it. They are the kids that have a lot of fight in them!
Growing early has its benefits early. Growing late can be devastating for the kids without the drive to succeed. But the tough ones can still hang in there.
Why is McCarnan ranked so high? This is a serious question. He plays flight 3 and isn't dominant. He has never proven himself at tournaments and it is all becoming quite the joke. I can think of 100's of kids in the same position.
Has anyone really seen him play this year?
If they have how can they rank him against flight 3 competition.
The ranking list is becoming quite believable other than this pick. Don't understand!
McCarnan is a good player and may have been elite during Peewee. He is now average and should definitely not be ranked as high.
winnipeg sharks honarable mention? they looked weak against red deer, only players i saw that stood out were kuklica(D),koop(F) and link(G)
NSWC defeats BWC 2-0.
Anybody see the game to offer insight?
NSWC-BWC game was a great game, rink was packed.
NSWC goal was a bad bounce that came of the end boards and goalie had no chance, last goal was empty netter.
NSWC PK did great job as BWC went o for 4.
Not much between this 2 teams and a boaunce here or there was the difference.
Both goalies solid, and the benefit of a few crossbar and posts.
BWC hit the cross bar with 7 min left with the NSWC goalie beat.
Both teams played outstanding team D.
Game was back and forth, very equal.
I would echo the comments of 10:22AM. It was a very even, entertaining game. Goalie had no chance on the goal off the end boards because he overplayed the wide shot, a common mistake at this level. Team D was exceptional for both sides and North Shore's penalty killing was excellent. BWC was a bit unlucky not to tie the game late.
Re Nathan McNarn conversation: I have watched him quite a bit without bias. Dominant in flight 3? No he is not.As I said with no personal connection I have watched him closely,though very noticeable, part of the reason he is not dominant is because he is not selfish, he tries, often in vain, to bring his teammates along. With no disrespect intended to anyone hockey is a team game and the depth of Vancouver Spirit versus the depth of a recruitment club makes this entire conversation look silly. Take any individual off either winter club and their "individual skill" takes a dramatic fall based on the depth of their supporting crew and the time and space that creates. What looks great with a well invested supporting crew quickly gets dumbed down when they are on their own. That reality has always shown post-bantam, when the recruitment clubs lose their advantage and in fact have a fairly mediocre percentage of players graduating to higher levels of hockey relative to the investment that has been made in them.Nathan clearly is an example of this.
To Nathan - you are a very strong player and to anyone that has watched, clearly are a great and unselfish teammate. You have unreal release so keep up the work on your strength.You need to lengthen your stride and ability to pivot moving your game more multidirection and not so much north south. There are good coaches that would love to help a hardworking unselfish player like you, ask. Finally,from the way you play I already know you are an incredibly nice young man. I bet very polite and naturally kind. If you want to play to your assets and take the next step you will have to leave those off ice attributes you should be very proud of at the door. When you step on the ice you have to envision the 13-14-15 year olds you are competing against as one of the 40-45-50 year olds that comment about you here and pretend it is them that you are competing with for the puck.Take no prisoners and be ruthless. You do not have to be dirty but you cannot be merciful.They are not with you, don't be with them.
Does Nathan deserve this or that ranking? Very,very subjective as it is with every kid...However to all you armchair critics, I just heard a collective pucker at the prospect of your 14 year old having to compete for a puck with an angry Nathan.... I hope he gets half the development opportunity in the next 18 months that any single club kid gets.I'd take him on my team anytime, anyplace..
Go ahead rip me, I'm a grown up. I can take it. Give the kid a break.I bet he could teach your kid a thing or two.
January 28, 2013 at 12:48 AM
You are making it worse for the kid. No more "Little House on the Prairie" stories please. 100's of kids as good as this player, also they are nice and kind and would share their candies. Let it go , he isn't at that level anymore!
Given that many seem unhappy about the sometimes less-than-positive remarks about players, maybe a few more Little House On The Prairie stories would be a good thing.
January 28, 2013 at 12:48 AM
I feel sorry for your kid. Stop embarrassing him. Let it all fall where it falls. No one is going to want to touch him because of you.
I just realized something!
There are people here who automatically assume that any kind comment about a player MUST be coming from that player's parent.
Why do they make that assumption? Because that is what they do! They come on this board pretending to offer something like an objective, informed assessment of a player, but in reality they are just blowing smoke about their own child.
Maybe this was obvious to everyone else, but I only just realized it.
January 28, 2013 at 8:29 AM
You go ahead and enjoy whatever it is that you like, and I will enjoy what I like.
Personally, I like Little House On The Prairie stories.
For the record I am not a parent, relative or friend. I could not even pick this kid out of a line up of peers. I am a hockey guy, coached at a high level for many years and am a regular in a circle of professional hockey people. Many on this site have walked a mile and get it. Some of you here think you have but in fact are really just sad. These players are usually barely into puberty. So much changes yet you speak as though you have a crystal ball and have been stricken by the lord and now see all. Yet I bet you don't even regularly win your own hockey pool with all the analysis at your hands. Singing Kumbayeh on the prairie?... I'd rather be that than a bitter parent living vicariously while tormenting my child's youthful experience playing and loving a beautiful game.I have this image in my mind of the aggressive bloggers here physically confronting 15 year old referees. I'm know I am not far off. Let the kids play and develop grown ups...
I am
From
Alberta
Does this macarn kid play for T birds?
We played them in Lehbridge and the team was ok, they had a crazy coach that yelled all game. That's all I remember about them.
January 29, 2013 at 6:56 AM
No, McCarnan does not play for the T-Birds. He plays for the other Vancouver team, the Vancouver Spirit. Terrific player. Not a first rounder, but should definitely go in the Top 100. I have no idea why anyone would not readily acknowledge his present ability AND his usefulness as a draft pick.
Agreed. Don't know why some have a hate on for McCarnan, but he'll go by the end of the third round. Bank on it.
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